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Women to serve on USN Submarines or whats long hard and full of seamen?

#1 User is offline   Luke Y 

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 2348 PM

Perhaps the most surprising thing about that article is how small the percentage of women in the USN is.
In the RAN for the last few years women have made up the majority of the graduating classes for O's and OR's (but overall numbers in the fleet are still large minority due to retention issues)

http://www.theaustra...from=public_rss

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US Navy allows women to serve on submarines

* From: AFP
* February 24, 2010 1:18PM

THE US Navy has decided to allow women to serve on submarines, ending one of the last all-male bastions in the American military.

Defence Secretary Robert Gates approved the recommendation and sent letters to Congress informing members of the plan on Monday, officials said.

Navy Secretary Ray Mabus and Admiral Gary Roughead, chief of naval operations, had briefed Gates on the change and ``he's endorsed it and sent it on to Congress'', press secretary Geoff Morrell told reporters.

Members of congress have 30 days to comment on the move before it goes into effect, officials say.

American women can already serve on the navy's fleet of warships and fly fighter aircraft, but nuclear-powered subs have remained off limits.

US naval officers previously cited the extremely tight quarters of a submarine as the main reason for the prohibition, but those who favour lifting the ban say subs could be outfitted with separate berths and bathrooms.

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The decision calls for ``a phased approach to assigning women on submarines'', said a defence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

One option under consideration would be to first allow female officers to serve on submarines, the official told Agence France-Presse.

That approach would involve less sweeping change as officers already have separate quarters from enlisted service members, the official said.

The first group of female officers selected for the duty would have to attend special training for submarines and for nuclear-powered vessels that takes more than a year, the official added.

Top military officer Admiral Mike Mullen first called for the change in written testimony to Congress last year, saying he wanted to ``continue to broaden opportunities for women'' in the armed forces.

Admiral Mullen endorsed the decision, said his spokesman John Kirby.

When Admiral Mullen served as chief of naval operations, he ordered a review of the issue but it was not completed before he took his current post as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The issue was hotly debated during Bill Clinton's presidency, when the navy secretary at the time urged a review of the ban but met with strong opposition from senior naval officers.

Women, who comprise about 15 per cent of the navy's officers and sailors, are also banned from serving in Navy SEAL special forces units.

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#2 User is offline   Ken Estes 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 0034 AM

Unlike other arms and branches, this one has a chance of actually succeeding w/o too many scandals. The SSN/SSBN force has many advantages as a venue, not the least of which are intelligent, trained and educated sailors [??!!!@@@***&&??]. In this case, they first will bring in officers, then CPOs and only at the last stage, the sailors.
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#3 User is offline   capt_starlight 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 0053 AM

The Collins class have women aboard - if they can get them (the subs) to go to sea! They have been able to posted to the subs since '98.
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#4 User is offline   Colin 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 0922 AM

View PostKen Estes, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 0534, said:

Unlike other arms and branches, this one has a chance of actually succeeding w/o too many scandals. The SSN/SSBN force has many advantages as a venue, not the least of which are intelligent, trained and educated sailors [??!!!@@@***&&??]. In this case, they first will bring in officers, then CPOs and only at the last stage, the sailors.


Where do you get Sub qualified female CPO's when there are no female submariners?
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#5 User is offline   Jim Martin 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 0956 AM

"The loooooove boat....."
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#6 User is offline   sunday 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1013 AM

View PostJim Martin, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1556, said:

"The loooooove boat....."


Wait until all the women aboard synchronize their cycles, and half the crew go into PMS... :lol:
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#7 User is offline   TomasCTT 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1027 AM

So the joke "a submarine is full of seamen" will soon be extinct?


http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/903/downperiscope17qg.png
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#8 User is offline   Jim Martin 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1029 AM

View Postsunday, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1513, said:

Wait until all the women aboard synchronize their cycles, and half the crew go into PMS... :lol:



You're describing my life as a married man.
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#9 User is offline   Xavier 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1218 PM

View PostJim Martin, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1629, said:

You're describing my life as a married man.

What, you have several dozen wives with synchronised cycles :huh: :o

On a more practical note, I remember the RN website giving some explanation about the air quality and such during a multiple month cruise all the time under water being unhealthy for foetuses that might be present in their mothers.

found it:

Quote

Q. Why are women not permitted to serve on submarines?

Service in submarines is closed to women because of medical concerns for the safety of the foetus and hence its mother. This restriction is purely medical and does not relate to combat effectiveness. The potential risks to the foetus do not arise from hazardous radiation, but from contaminants in the submarine's atmosphere.

The Institute of Naval Medicine (INM) reviewed the exclusion in 1999, as did subsequently both the Defence Scientific Advisory Council and Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. Their outcomes supported the conclusions of the INM report, that the exclusion was justified.

Apparently the USN thinks differently on this issue?
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#10 User is offline   Luke Y 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1222 PM

View PostJim Martin, on Thu 25 Feb 2010 0126, said:

"The loooooove boat....."


If anything those issues will be far less in the submarine service due to the dire lack of privacy compared with skimmers.

But it could give a whole new meaning to the term 'Hot Bunking' :unsure:
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#11 User is offline   Jim Martin 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1253 PM

View PostXavier, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1718, said:

What, you have several dozen wives with synchronised cycles :huh: :o



I lived with my redheaded wife and her two redheaded teenage daughters. Plus a female dog and female cat.

I'm much better now that I'm out of that house...
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#12 User is offline   A2Keltainen 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1317 PM

View PostXavier, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 2018, said:

On a more practical note, I remember the RN website giving some explanation about the air quality and such during a multiple month cruise all the time under water being unhealthy for foetuses that might be present in their mothers.

found it:

Apparently the USN thinks differently on this issue?


Maybe the USN has a "more progressive" view on women giving birth to banjo duel loving mutant kids? "Weeeell, looook at the littttle baaaby! Just three years old, and he can already play the banjo, hunt rats for food, and scare away the rabies infested neigborhood dogs..." :D
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#13 User is offline   Ken Estes 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1447 PM

View PostColin, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1422, said:

Where do you get Sub qualified female CPO's when there are no female submariners?

Send them to the New London school. Submarines are a qualification, not a rating, except for certain specialists. When the USN expanded rapidly to a 41-boat SSBN force with double crews, even middle-grade officers were drafted from other branches.

Things are a lot the same as surface ships; you can no longer sink a sub by mishandling the toilet, for instance.
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#14 User is offline   Colin 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 1632 PM

View PostKen Estes, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1947, said:

Send them to the New London school. Submarines are a qualification, not a rating, except for certain specialists. When the USN expanded rapidly to a 41-boat SSBN force with double crews, even middle-grade officers were drafted from other branches.

Things are a lot the same as surface ships; you can no longer sink a sub by mishandling the toilet, for instance.



Hmm, I remember stories from our Chief engineer, who served on the Canadian Oben class subs, about what happens when the engineer/oil on watch forgot to equalize the sewage tank to the boat after purging the tank.
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#15 User is offline   GregShaw 

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 2122 PM

View PostKen Estes, on Wed 24 Feb 2010 1247, said:

Send them to the New London school. Submarines are a qualification, not a rating, except for certain specialists. When the USN expanded rapidly to a 41-boat SSBN force with double crews, even middle-grade officers were drafted from other branches.

Things are a lot the same as surface ships; you can no longer sink a sub by mishandling the toilet, for instance.

Have you met Lt Ducky?
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#16 User is offline   Gunguy 

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 0639 AM

Once again Mullen is involved in stupidity. Anyway, I think women should be allowed into SEAL training too. Keeping them out is not appropriate. They should also be allowed into all Marine combat units. Also, open, flaming gays should be allowed, and butch lesbians. Lets just do it all and be done with it.
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#17 User is offline   Xavier 

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 0810 AM

View PostGunguy, on Thu 25 Feb 2010 1239, said:

Once again Mullen is involved in stupidity. Anyway, I think women should be allowed into SEAL training too. Keeping them out is not appropriate. They should also be allowed into all Marine combat units. Also, open, flaming gays should be allowed, and butch lesbians. Lets just do it all and be done with it.

And why not? Adults shouldn't have a problem with that. As long as women have to meet the same physical standards as men for the same position*. (not the case in Belgium f.e., I suppose we'll have to create all female units, ask the enemy to do the same and let them have chick fights to keep things fair :P ) Also note that the type of gay that runs around on gay parades or speaks with a funny accent usually wouldn't even dare to touch a gun, let alone join the military, no need to fear those too much either.

*This means that for example the SEALs would only have a handful of women amongst them every generation or something, all others not passing selection or even bothering to try.
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#18 User is offline   A2Keltainen 

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 0813 AM

View PostGunguy, on Thu 25 Feb 2010 1439, said:

Once again Mullen is involved in stupidity. Anyway, I think women should be allowed into SEAL training too. Keeping them out is not appropriate. They should also be allowed into all Marine combat units. Also, open, flaming gays should be allowed, and butch lesbians. Lets just do it all and be done with it.


I for one welcome a future battle between a USN extreme feminist butch lesbian SEAL platoon, and a bunch of militant male islamists.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SJaBtR84184

:D
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#19 User is offline   A2Keltainen 

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 0823 AM

View PostXavier, on Thu 25 Feb 2010 1610, said:

Also note that the type of gay that runs around on gay parades or speaks with a funny accent usually wouldn't even dare to touch a gun, let alone join the military, no need to fear those too much either.


Can the thick moustache wearing Tom of Finland type muscle daddy macho gays that join the SEALs wear their assless chaps, leather vests, and leather peaked caps as part of their allowed uniform? :D
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#20 User is offline   Luke Y 

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 1204 PM

View PostA2Keltainen, on Thu 25 Feb 2010 2353, said:

Can the thick moustache wearing Tom of Finland type muscle daddy macho gays that join the SEALs wear their assless chaps, leather vests, and leather peaked caps as part of their allowed uniform? :D


A bit like this? :huh:

http://img.hunkdujour.com/blog/gay_blogger/530/viggo_mortensen_2008_01_1.jpg

This post has been edited by Luke Y: 25 February 2010 - 1205 PM

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