[Hellfish6]

I saw a photograph of a Japanese F-4 recently and was curious as to what kinds of upgrades the F-4 has received over the years. I know the South Koreans and Japanese still fly them, and have probably upgraded the hell out of them. The Germans and Turks still fly them too.

Are these upgraded F-4s very capable, compared to later aircraft? Can they fire AMRAAMs? Can they be equipped with AESA or other high tech gizmos? Are they equipped with them?

[Mistral]

Hellfish6, on Thu 20 Dec 2007 1951, said:

I saw a photograph of a Japanese F-4 recently and was curious as to what kinds of upgrades the F-4 has received over the years. I know the South Koreans and Japanese still fly them, and have probably upgraded the hell out of them. The Germans and Turks still fly them too.

Are these upgraded F-4s very capable, compared to later aircraft? Can they fire AMRAAMs? Can they be equipped with AESA or other high tech gizmos? Are they equipped with them?

Greece has updated 36 F-4s under the Peace Icarus 2000 program. It involved a new radar (APG 65), new cocpit, plus the ability to carry AMRAAMs and guided munitions. It was based on the German ICE program but the focus was on air to air and air to ground roles, in adition they lost the ability to carry AIM-7s. Heres is a mention on EADS site.

Link

The Turkish upgrade called 2020 Terminator (54 planes), based on the Isreili Kurnass 2000 upgrade, is centered on the air to ground role mostly with a new radar by ELTA (EL/M-2032) .

You can find more info in the wikipedia article for the F4.

[LeoTanker]

I got this from an Irani forum (yes, they are for obvious resons also interested in what the old Phantom can/could do) regarding the Turkish F-4s:

"The Turkish Air Force received 40 F-4Es in 1974, with a further 32 F-4Es and 8 RF-4Es in 1977-78 under the Peace Diamond III program, followed by 40 ex-USAF aircraft in Peace Diamond IV in 1987, and a further 40 ex-US Air National Guard Aircraft in 1991.[39] A further 32 RF-4Es were transferred Turkey after being retired by the Luftwaffe between 1992 and 1994.[39] In 1995, IAI of Israel implemented an upgrade similar to Kurnass 2000 on 54 Turkish F-4Es. Dubbed Terminator 2020, the aircraft are optimised for ground attack missions with AGM-142 Popeye/Have Nap integration, Litening-II targeting pods, and the capability to launch AGM-65D/G Maverick, AGM-88 HARM, GBU-8 HOBOS, LGBs, general purpose and cluster bombs for air-to-ground missions, while retaining the capability to launch AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. It is also possible to install Pave Spike targeting pods and rocket pods of all sizes. The capability to launch AIM-120 AMRAAM was not included in the Terminator 2020 upgrade program, as greater emphasis was given on the air-to-ground role. The upgrade includes an advanced ELTA EL/M-2032 radar with SAR capability, adopted from the abortive IAI Lavi technology demonstrator of the early 1990s.[12] Even though the Terminator 2020 upgrade program was largely based on IAI’s Kurnass 2000 project, it included numerous improvements in many areas such as the Kaiser/E1-OP HUD, HOTAS, INS/GPS, MFDs, secure UHF/VHF communication systems, DTC, new EW suites, new RWR, Chaff/Flare dispensers, Elisra SPS self protection jammer, Elisra upgraded ALQ-119 pods for the latest double-digit SAMs, new wiring, improvements in the structure and updated General Electric J79 engines"

The OP regards the Turkish Phantoms to be the best F-4s around. I have no idéa if he is right or not, but he could well be for all I know.

When did Israel retire her Phantoms btw?

[seahawk]

Well imho thge most advanced F-4s still in service are the Greek Peace Icarus variants.

[David Clarke]

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4.html

Has a good rundown of Phantom modifications by other users and some in service data, including some on the Japanese F-4EJ.

[Hellfish6]

Thanks for the info.

[Luke Y]

How are the airframes holding up?

They would still be quite capable aircraft if APG-65 equipped as well as the litening pods etc, like an F/A-18A/C with a lot more muscle...

[dvwjr]

Here is an interesting F-4 Phantom II picture from yesteryear...

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8894/f4flatplateant2aue1.th.jpg
F-4J Testbed
Flat Plate antenna

dvwjr

[Mistral]

Luke_Yaxley, on Sat 22 Dec 2007 0457, said:

How are the airframes holding up?

They would still be quite capable aircraft if APG-65 equipped as well as the litening pods etc, like an F/A-18A/C with a lot more muscle...

Well the Greek ones are ment to soldier on untill at least 2015, all the not upgraded ones were/are going to be retired and used as parts.

[George Newbill]

IIRC Isreal had a very good upgrade proposal for the F-4 new engines, new avionics ect but the USAF offered the IAF F-15s if IMI would drop the upgrades. The USAF feared that upgraded F-4s would compete worldwide with F-15/F-16s sales driving up per-unit costs.

The F-4 was a good bird, by today they would be at the end of their airframe lifespan and even upgraded, obsolete. But so too is the F-15 now.

[seahawk]

Luke_Yaxley, on Sat 22 Dec 2007 0357, said:

How are the airframes holding up?

They would still be quite capable aircraft if APG-65 equipped as well as the litening pods etc, like an F/A-18A/C with a lot more muscle...

Well after 7000+ hours, they are still flying. Mainting has vecome a bith now, but the good think is that mayn things are still mechnaical so nothing a hammer and a wrench can´t fix. Interestingly nobody has reported some big structural problems so far. There was some minor stuff with the tail planes because of the heat nut center barrel structure still seems to hold just fine, at least for F-4s that never landed on a carrier.