[Anixtu]

I've been reading a bit about the carriage of nuclear weapons by British ships in the Falklands War, and there are mentions of surveillance rounds and training rounds as well as live nuclear depth charges. What is a "surveillance round" and what is its purpose?

The only references I can find online are derived from the MoD document issued about the subject of nuclear weapons in the Falklands: http://www.rna-10-ar...ate-nuclear.pdf

[Mote]

The mother of all illumination rounds?

[DB]

From: http://www.century20...o.uk/page5.html

Quote

The WE177 family were highly adaptable as regards fusing options and all could operate in various modes, from parachute retarded or balistic trajectory, air burst, ground burst, laydown in water or on land, timed or depth operation. The yield (with the A version) and operation mode would be set by equipment in the ground control unit on the individual bombs, by a key held by the plane captain. Further options were set from a panel on the aircraft, either plane or helicopter as required. The Royal Navy exclusively used WE177A. The RAF in the UK used both the A and B versions. The RAF in Germany used A and later C versions. There were also special surveillance rounds to examine the effects of storage and high speed flight on the bombs, which were complete apart from the fissile materials. Each type also had training rounds.

I particularly liked the bit about the nuclear rounds being described as "600"s - because they were recorded as 600lb HE bombs.

David

[Anixtu]

DB, on Mon 29 Oct 2007 2207, said:

There were also special surveillance rounds to examine the effects of storage and high speed flight on the bombs, which were complete apart from the fissile materials.

Excellent, thanks!

Looking again at the list of warships and what they carried I notice it was only the T42s that carried surveillance rounds. Perhaps they were being surveyed at the time.

[Chris Werb]

Anixtu, on Mon 29 Oct 2007 2136, said:

Excellent, thanks!

Looking again at the list of warships and what they carried I notice it was only the T42s that carried surveillance rounds. Perhaps they were being surveyed at the time.

Unless the helo could carry nuclear DCs what other nuclear weapon would a type42 carry?

[Anixtu]

Chris Werb, on Tue 30 Oct 2007 0902, said:

Unless the helo could carry nuclear DCs what other nuclear weapon would a type42 carry?

According to the MoD document all nuclear weapons on RN ships present at the Falklands were depth charges.

[Chris Werb]

I'm surprised they allowed any nuclear weapons into theatre given the probability of ship losses. Did any of the ships sunk go down with nukes onboard? I'm sure we'd have heard about it if they had.

[Anixtu]

Chris Werb, on Tue 30 Oct 2007 1036, said:

I'm surprised they allowed any nuclear weapons into theatre given the probability of ship losses. Did any of the ships sunk go down with nukes onboard? I'm sure we'd have heard about it if they had.

The MoD document explains it all quite well, though it isn't the easiest to read: http://www.rna-10-ar...ate-nuclear.pdf . There was some recent-ish press and news coverage: http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/3295855.stm http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/3297805.stm

There were only four warships carrying live rounds: Hermes, Invincible, Broadsword and Brilliant. These four also all carried inert training rounds. Glamorgan had an inert training round. Sheffield and Coventry were carrying surveillance rounds. All live, training and surveillance rounds were removed from the frigates and destroyers to Hermes, Invincible and RFAs Fort Austin, Regent and Resource where they were shuffled around to avoid breaching the Treaty of Tlatelolco under which we couldn't take nuclear weapons into Falklands territorial waters. All rounds were eventually returned to the UK by Fort Austin and Resource.

One of the reasons for keeping the nuclear weapons with the task force was the possibility of ships being redeployed to NATO missions if the Soviets got frisky.

[DB]

It's interesting that the RN was instructed to ensure that the ships containing nuclear weapons were to stay outside of the zone. Map Here.

Does this actually explain why Sandy wouldn't bring the aircraft carriers any nearer to extend Harrier loiter time over San Carlos?

David

[Anixtu]

DB, on Tue 30 Oct 2007 1955, said:

It's interesting that the RN was instructed to ensure that the ships containing nuclear weapons were to stay outside of the zone. Map Here.

Does this actually explain why Sandy wouldn't bring the aircraft carriers any nearer to extend Harrier loiter time over San Carlos?

David

The zone as shown in the map was not in force in 1982, it was just the 12 mile territorial waters limit of the Falklands. Something to do with which countries had ratified the treaty at the time. I'm sure the full text of the treaty will explain, if anyone feels like reading it. :)

[RETAC21]

Victory!

"The WE177 family were highly adaptable as regards fusing options and all could operate in various modes, from parachute retarded or balistic trajectory, air burst, ground burst, laydown in water or on land, timed or depth operation. The yield (with the A version) and operation mode would be set by equipment in the ground control unit on the individual bombs, by a key held by the plane captain. Further options were set from a panel on the aircraft, either plane or helicopter as required. The Royal Navy exclusively used WE177A. The RAF in the UK used both the A and B versions. The RAF in Germany used A and later C versions. There were also special surveillance rounds to examine the effects of storage and high speed flight on the bombs, which were complete apart from the fissile materials. Each type also had training rounds."

http://www.century20...o.uk/page5.html

[DB]

RETAC21, on Tue 30 Oct 2007 2028, said:

Victory!

"The WE177 family were highly adaptable as regards fusing options and all could operate in various modes, from parachute retarded or balistic trajectory, air burst, ground burst, laydown in water or on land, timed or depth operation. The yield (with the A version) and operation mode would be set by equipment in the ground control unit on the individual bombs, by a key held by the plane captain. Further options were set from a panel on the aircraft, either plane or helicopter as required. The Royal Navy exclusively used WE177A. The RAF in the UK used both the A and B versions. The RAF in Germany used A and later C versions. There were also special surveillance rounds to examine the effects of storage and high speed flight on the bombs, which were complete apart from the fissile materials. Each type also had training rounds."

http://www.century20...o.uk/page5.html

Ahem.

David

[RETAC21]

DB, on Tue 30 Oct 2007 2221, said:

Ahem.

David

Oooooops! :blink: