[Davin]

PT-91A in exercise.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/102452/modelarstwo/P19_d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/102452/modelarstwo/P1_d.jpg
I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?

[A2Keltainen]

Does anyone know what the two black vertical cylinders, that are approximately the same size as the smoke grenade dischargers, and located on each side of the gun barrel in the turret front, and, are?

[Djuice]

I think they are gravitational sensors to detect changes to the atmosphere outside of the vehicle, also maintains a stable temporal flux shield around the vehicle to protect it from getting sucks in the a singularity.. iow I dont have a clue...

Great pics btw :D How do the PT-91 series defer to other upgraded T-72s?

[Davin]

A2Keltainen, on Mon 10 Oct 2005 0720, said:

Does anyone know what the two black vertical cylinders, that are approximately the same size as the smoke grenade dischargers, and located on each side of the gun barrel in the turret front, and, are?

Sensors of laser warning system.

[Simon Tan]

LOARA LWRs to be precise. The Malaysian PT-91Ms chucked them in favour of Avimos.

Apart from the ERAWA, LWR, A shitload of Tucha smoke dischragers and the DRAWA-T FCS replacing the TPD-K1? I believe they also run a Wola Stawola Wola diesel, originally rated at 840hp.

Their stabiliser is still the old Soviet unit and not the rinky dinky souped up job that was fitted the the Malaysian tanks. The FCS gives them LRF and thermals but it doesn't have to fire-on the move capability of 2-axis stabed sights.

This is no longer the premier thank of the Polish Army. That would eb the Leo2A4.

Simon

[Djuice]

Are the Polish still producing PT-91 for their own Army still?

[nitin]

Simon Tan, on Mon 10 Oct 2005 0803, said:

Their stabiliser is still the old Soviet unit and not the rinky dinky souped up job that was fitted the the Malaysian tanks. The FCS gives them LRF and thermals but it doesn't have to fire-on the move capability of 2-axis stabed sights.



Simon

You sure of that? I had thought the Drawa T did give fire on the move ability. IIRC it was mentioned on the Kotsch.de website.

I would have thought that the Pk would be lesser, but still fire on the move capability was there..

[Simon Tan]

It does....but is limited by the original stabiliser which isn't really up to snuff for the cool demo video shots. That's why the T-90 runs the 1G46 Iyrtush stabiliser lifted from the T-80U series.

So you could probably engage manouvering targets while moving in a straight line .

[alejandro_]

The other disadvantages of the PT-91 is that it is based on the T-72M1, the T-90 descends from the T-72BU. The gun in the PT-91 is still the 2A46M/M2, the armour of the T-91 should also be superior.

IIRC Malaysia adquired a number of them, even if in the trials it scored less than the T-91S, T-84M and CV-90120. The main reason was that the poles accepeted the payment scheme.

Regards.

[Harkonnen]

As I remember Malasian tanks are equiped with advanced Ukrainian guns.

[Simon Tan]

Everyone has it wrong......

The gun is from Konstrukta in Slovakia and was probably the LAST thing that was finalised. They initially were supposed to go with the Polish 2A46 but that sucked hind tit when paired with the rinky dinky SAVAN 15 FCS so they had to go shopping. The Ukranians AND the Russians were approached but both fell trhough, inpart because both parties had lost out on the MBT contract amongst other things.
Strangely enough the Moderna T-72M2 was at one poitn considered the hot favourite...and that featured the Konstrukta gun and DYNA ERA.

As to the PT-91M 'winning'.....it was actually considered dead in the water. The T-84 and T-90 were the hot favourites and had come to Malaysia along with the CV90120 in 2002 for mobility trials in country. Our main training facility in Gemas was not ready and we didn't have any proper tnak ranges that would ahve been meaningul tests of the FCS at the time. The CV90 was delayed in Germany, missed the DSA show but made the mobility demo. It however was not kept for the extended mobililty trials that involved the T-84 and T-90. They both broke down.....

In 2003, Our Prime Minister went to Poland and during the trip took a spin in the PT-91 then dropped a bombshell declaring that we were going to buy the PT-91M which had been in KL years ago as the T-72M1Z with a South African Tiger FCS! It had been more or less kept alive by the agent and the Poles, who actually offered to bankroll the deal in the form of soft loans.

The big change was the acquisition of the Malaysian Mining Corporation by Syed Mokhtar al-Bukahri, a portege and darling of Dr. M. One of its subsidiaries was MMC Defense which already doing some work with refurbishing Malaysian Army vehicles like the SIBMAS and Kondors. They became the 'system integrator' of the T-91M and worked their magic and hey presto! When the deal was inked, a lot of subsystems were still to be decided. The word is that the Poles sweetened the deal with access to the East Silesian studs....the then PM being a bit of a horsey man.

The PT-91M is somewhat compromised by its crappy commander's sight, a day only, non-range finding VIGY 15.

[armyreco]

Hello,

You can go to my web site to see a technical data sheet and pictures about the PT-91.
This write in French, but you have a translator to the left of the page.

PT-91 Description and pictures

http://www.armyrecognition.com/europe/Pologne/vehicules_lourds/PT-91/PT-91_Main_battle_tank_poland_01.jpg

Greetings.

Alain

[Przezdzieblo]

Davin, on Mon 10 Oct 2005 0323, said:

PT-91A in exercise.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/102452/modelarstwo/P19_d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/102452/modelarstwo/P1_d.jpg
I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?

About ERAWA - I am sure those ERA was mentioned at TN. But, once more:
ERAWA-1 is one layer ERA, ERAWA-2 is two layers ERA.
PT-91A seems to be designation of two different tanks:
- export version (circa `95), with S-1000 engine and Savan-15P FCS and both ERAWA-1 and -2 cells.
- [probably] T72M1 modernization with the most of PT-91 features, but with new tracks and Thompson communication system; primary it was designated PT-91A1 and accepted by army as PT-91A; S-12U 850 hp engines; ERAWA-1 and -2 cells
Tanks from pics might be PT-91A or T72M1Z :blink:

First serie of PT-91s had only ERAWA-1. 2nd and 3rd series got also ERAWA-2 (3rd serie also modular cells of both ERAWAs).

PT-91 LWR is SPP-1 Obra. Loara is a name of new AA system. PT-91M have SPP-1 Obra-3 LWR.
Smoke grenade launchers in early PT-91s were two different kind - 902B Tucha and Polish antilaser Tellur. It is possible that newer vehicles got uniformed launchers.


One more generalization of PT-91 types, not finally checked - but sources differs. So believe or believe not ;)
PT-91 - both: tanks of first series (prototype got Drawa FCS, with passive night gunner sight; next vehicles got Drawa-T FCS with ElOp Elbow TI) and a name of a standard (new engine, FCS, ERA, Obra-1)
T-72M1Z - modernized T72M1, upgraded to PT-91 standard, mostly with both ERAWA-1 and -2, some new communication systems, 700 kg lighter from "normal" PT-91 (and with not changed belly)
PT-91A:
- export version demonstrator
- previously PT-91A1 modernization, tanks accepted by army
PT-91Z - export version demonstrator, very similar to 1st PT-91A, but with new modular ERA
PT-91M
PT-91B - some study project, next step in Twardy`s development, details unknown, cancelled
PT-91/120 - "leopardized" Twardy, with new turret and 120 mm gun, FCS etc.; it is possible that it is the same vehicle known also as PT-2000 (there was presented some model), more details unknown, cancelled

This post has been edited by Przezdzieblo: 10 October 2005 - 1356 PM

[Harkonnen]

PT-91/120 was a project offered by Bumar-Labedy for the new Polish tank program, but OBRUM selected the PT-2001 Gepard.
PT-91B – intermediate model proposed by Bumar-Labedy to Polish government before PT-2001 production included new S-1000 engine by PZL Wola, new tracks and suspension. AAS-1 Tafios protection system and navigation complex.
PT-91B was planned not to lose tank producing capability before starting PT-2001 production.
But at the end they received some old Leo-2s

Attached File(s)

•  gepard.jpg (24.28K)
  Number of downloads: 178

[Simon Tan]

It's all Polish top me......yes...I remember now, the Loara is the Gepard like AA tank!

PT-91M most certainly does not have Obra anymore. I'm surprised they seem to have kept the Polish pattern gernade launchers but there's really no reason why they cannot be sleeved to fire our 76mm German pattern grenades.
We use the Avimo on our ACV-300 (Souped up M113s).

Simon

[Przezdzieblo]

Simon Tan, on Tue 11 Oct 2005 1032, said:

PT-91M most certainly does not have Obra anymore.

This one
http://i6.photobucke...ch/DSC01010.jpg
http://i6.photobucke...ch/DSC01011.jpg
http://img221.images...pt91m0121jk.jpg
http://img221.images...pt91m0169yn.jpg
has. Are you sure that next PT-91M would have no Obra-3?
I read today that there is something new in PT-91M - driver volant, no longer orginal T72 levers.

Harkonnen, thanks for more details.

[yellowjacket]

Is that a Civil Defence badge on the front of the hull (orange circle with blue equilateral triangle superimposed)?

If it is, I can't see why it is on the front of a tank....

[Davin]

Przezdzieblo,
Very nice info.Thanks!
BTW,do you think Erawa-1 ERA better than Kontakt-1 ERA?

[Przezdzieblo]

Davin, on Tue 11 Oct 2005 1546, said:

Przezdzieblo,
Very nice info.Thanks!
BTW,do you think Erawa-1 ERA better than Kontakt-1 ERA?

I am affraid that I cannot made such comparison. But I could provide some data it could be used for that.
ERAWA-1 against BK-14M HEAT round (penetration >300 mm RHAe; at Vasily`s site ~450 mm RHAe): jet penetrated only 30 mm of RHAe behind reactive armour cell
ERAWA-1 against BM-15 APFSDS round (penetration ~300 mm RHAe; at Vasily`s site even 380 mm RHAe): rod penetrated about 130 mm of RHA plate (o 60)

About K-1 performance you should ask someone another and there compare. ERAWA-1 is newer than K-1 and that is one more thing should be remembered.